Jan 13, 2026
Round Trip Death Podcast In this episode of Round Trip Death, host Eric Bennett and guest Donald Winner take a deep investigative dive into near-death experiences (NDEs) using the tools of intelligence analysis rather than belief or doctrine.
Drawing on decades of experience in military intelligence and journalism, Don explains how he began studying NDEs after his father briefly lost consciousness and wondered aloud if that moment felt like dying. What started as curiosity turned into a large-scale analysis of thousands of NDE accounts.
Don explains that when viewed collectively, near-death experiences reveal remarkable consistency: out-of-body perception, movement through darkness or a tunnel, encounters with light or an intelligence, life reviews, and reunions with deceased loved ones.
While individual experiences vary in detail, the underlying structure remains strikingly uniform—much like people describing the same journey from different perspectives. He also explains how he evaluates authenticity, including the development of a computer-based scoring model that analyzes transcripts for known NDE markers.
According to Don, true NDEs are marked by clarity, coherence, and emotional authenticity—unlike hallucinations or drug-induced visions. The conversation expands into the origins of religion, with Don proposing that ancient near-death experiences—shared orally for hundreds of thousands of years—may be the foundation for humanity’s earliest concepts of the soul, the afterlife, and God.
Importantly, he emphasizes that belief systems don’t seem to dictate what happens after death; atheists, Christians, and people of all faiths report similar core experiences.
This episode offers a grounded, analytical, and thought-provoking exploration of what may await us beyond death—without asking listeners to believe anything blindly.
Don Winner: https://www.winnernde.com/
RoundTripDeath.com Donate to this podcast: https://www.roundtripdeath.com/support/
ROUNDTRIP DEATH PODCAST
Interview with Don Winner
Eric:
Welcome to Roundtrip Death, everybody. We are really happy to have Don Winner with us today, joining us all the way from New York. How are you, Don?
Don:
Doing great. How are you doing?
Eric:
Great. It is good to see you. Happy New Year to everybody. This episode is being recorded before the New Year, but it will come out afterward.
I want to give our listeners a little heads-up because today’s episode will be a little different. We’re going to take a step back and take more of an investigative approach to near-death experiences. Don is someone who has spent his career in investigative work, and I’ll let him fill in those details, but he has actually been called one of the great investigators on planet Earth.
Don:
Wow.
Eric:
You’re too humble to say that yourself. Before we jump in, tell us a little about yourself, Don.
Don:
I live in the Hudson Valley region of New York. I’m 63 years old and married. My father is still alive at 92 years old. I have a son who lives in Albany, and my daughter, who is 19, still lives with me.
I went straight into the military out of high school, lived overseas for many years, and eventually moved back to New York when my parents reached their 80s. I wanted to spend some time with them before it was too late.
Eric:
Give us a little bit about your military background and what qualifies you for the investigative work you’ve done regarding near-death experiences.
Don:
I worked in intelligence for my entire military career. I spent 20 years in the military, followed by five additional years as a military contractor doing intelligence work, and then another eight years as an investigative journalist.
I started as a Korean linguist for six years, then became a Spanish linguist. The final five years of my military career were spent in Special Operations.
After that, I worked in intelligence collection throughout Latin America as a defense contractor, primarily based in Panama. When I retired, I stayed in Panama and spent eight years working as an investigative journalist.
I’ve been trained by the National Security Agency and earned a Master of Science in Strategic Intelligence through the Defense Intelligence Agency. That training also included extensive interaction with organizations such as the CIA.
Military intelligence really comes down to a few fundamental things:
Gather information.
Analyze information.
Present it in a useful format so decision-makers can make informed decisions.
As a result, you learn a great deal about collecting information, analyzing information, and viewing issues from a strategic perspective.
One of the phrases we used was:
“When in doubt, zoom out.”
You can always gain insight by looking at the bigger picture.
That’s how I approached near-death experiences. I viewed them primarily as data.
Eric:
What got you interested in NDEs in the first place? You’ve done this research entirely on your own time.
Don:
About a year ago, my father accompanied me to a medical appointment. He wasn’t there for treatment; he just came along for something to do.
As we were leaving the doctor’s office, he suddenly passed out.
I could tell something wasn’t right before it happened. As he collapsed, I grabbed his coat and lowered him gently to the ground so he wouldn’t hit hard.
To make a long story short, it turned out he had a stomach bug and had become dehydrated.
A week or two later, we were talking about the incident. He told me that the last thing he remembered before losing consciousness was thinking:
“I wonder if this is what it’s like to die.”
That got my attention.
My father was never particularly religious. Growing up, he had an aunt and uncle who were very religious, but they were also hypocritical. They used religion to manipulate people, and it turned him off completely.
He always used to say, and still says:
“I hope when I die I’ll be pleasantly surprised.”
He doesn’t claim to know what’s waiting for him. He just hopes it’s something good.
He’s lived a great life and is a genuinely good person.
That conversation was what started me down this path. I began doing some research, and that’s how the journey started.
Eric:
Most people who begin research have some sort of hypothesis in mind before they start.
Were you trying to determine whether the afterlife was real? Were you trying to figure out what happens after death?
What were you actually looking for?
Don:
The short answer is no.
As an analyst, you try very hard to avoid that kind of bias.
You begin with a clean slate.
You gather as much information as possible.
Then you let the information lead you to the conclusions.
It’s very similar to investigative journalism. You collect the facts and allow the facts to determine where the investigation goes.
I didn’t begin with any preconceived notions.
Eric:
But you must have wanted to learn something. What was it?
Don:
I started doing basic research and eventually stumbled into the entire field of near-death experiences.
My first reaction was simply:
“Well, this is interesting.”
Initially, I was skeptical about some of the things I was hearing.
But the process evolved.
I went from skeptical…
to interested…
to intrigued…
and eventually to acceptance.
That didn’t happen overnight. It was a gradual process based on the information itself.
Eric:
Let’s talk about the big picture. What are some of the major things you learned?
Don:
The first thing that struck me was the sheer volume of data.
The amount of information available is enormous.
The more I learned, the more I realized that near-death experiences are occurring today in greater numbers than at any previous time in history because modern medicine keeps improving.
We have better emergency response systems.
More ambulances.
More advanced hospitals.
Defibrillators.
Life-saving medications.
People who would have died fifty years ago are now surviving.
As a result, there are more people returning from the edge of death and reporting what they experienced.
Based on population estimates and available data, my rough calculation is that approximately 25,000 new near-death experiences occur worldwide every day.
Eric:
By the way, have you spoken with Dr. Jeff O’Driscoll?
Don:
No.
Eric:
He’s someone you should meet. He lives in Salt Lake City and has done extensive research on the actual numbers. He’s made some fascinating observations that align with what you’re talking about.
One of those observations is that modern medicine is creating more survivors.
That doesn’t necessarily mean more people are talking about their experiences, but it does mean more people are having them.
For example, defibrillators are everywhere now—schools, gyms, hotels, airports. As a result, many more people survive cardiac arrests that would once have been fatal.
We’ll have him on the show someday. I think you’d find his research fascinating.
Don:
Absolutely.
One of the other things I noticed is that people are becoming more willing to talk about their experiences.
If you go back to the 1970s or 1980s, many people were afraid to tell their stories because they thought others would assume they were crazy.
They worried people would think the experience was simply a result of brain damage or trauma.
Today, thanks to the internet and programs like yours, there is far less stigma.
People are more willing to speak openly.
You’ll often hear someone say:
“This happened to me forty years ago, and this is the first time I’ve ever told anyone.”
So there are really two things happening simultaneously.
More NDEs are occurring because more people survive.
And more people are willing to talk about them.
Eric:
Tell us about some of your findings.
Don:
The process I went through was to take a broad-stroke approach and look for the commonalities.
Eventually, I got to the point where I could listen to near-death experiences and, honestly, it almost became predictable because you know what’s likely to happen next.
The first thing I look for is whether there was an actual clinical death or a genuine brush with death. That might be someone who flatlined, someone who was in hospice, or someone dying from cancer and hovering on the edge between life and death.
That’s my starting point.
I’m not particularly interested in someone simply saying, “I woke up outside my body.” My first question is, “What happened?” Let’s take a step back and look at the circumstances. What exactly was going on?
The next thing I look at is how the event occurred.
People arrive at these experiences in all kinds of ways. They get crushed by a car, thrown through a windshield, struck by lightning, suffer a heart attack, or experience some other medical crisis.
There are countless ways for this to happen.
Then I start looking for the commonalities.
The out-of-body experience.
The void.
The tunnel.
The bright light.
Meeting the energy source.
The life review.
The garden.
Meeting deceased relatives or ancestors.
These are the recurring elements.
The consistency is remarkable.
That’s what eventually pushed me over the top in terms of acceptance. I reached the point where I simply said, “This is what happens.”
That was really the beginning of my process.
Eric:
I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment.
I certainly share your view that these experiences are real and that there are many commonalities, but there are also a lot of differences.
Did those differences ever throw you off?
Don:
No.
I’ve thought about that a lot.
Let’s say I told you that I got in my car, drove to the bank, used the ATM, bought a hot dog, and then went bowling.
If you and I both had that same experience, I would be driving my car and going to my bank. You’d be driving your car and going to your bank.
The details would be different, but the overall experience would be the same.
That’s how I look at near-death experiences.
You can have differences and consistency at the same time.
Both things can be true.
The specific details may vary, but the overall pattern remains exactly the same.
Eric:
Even if two people went to the same bowling alley, the same bank, and ate the same hot dog, they would still report the experience differently.
Don:
Right.
And that’s another part of it.
I’ve seen cases where someone tells their story and says, “This is what happened.”
But later, when you have a chance to correspond with them by email, text, or in a direct conversation, they’ll remember additional details.
I try very hard not to lead people.
I’ll simply ask, “Did anything else happen?”
Then they’ll stop and think for a moment and say, “Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that.”
A lot of times they leave things out during the first telling, but later they remember additional pieces of the experience.
Eric:
I find that sometimes a person can have had an experience twenty years ago, and a question they’ve never considered before can suddenly trigger another memory.
Don:
Exactly.
Eric:
To you, is that more evidence that the experience is real, or less evidence that it’s real?
Don:
A couple of things.
I have ADHD. That’s just part of who I am.
One thing it seems to give me is an ability to pick up on intonation, body language, vocabulary, word choice, and the way people communicate.
You can often tell when someone is authentic.
At the same time, you can often tell when somebody is making something up.
For example, there was a young man who was driving drunk, crashed his car, and killed someone.
He later told a story about a near-death experience.
As I listened, something just felt off.
The words he used.
The way he described things.
The overall presentation.
Something didn’t fit.
Later, I learned that he used the story to support a religious conversion narrative and to persuade a parole board to release him.
He had a very strong motivation.
But even before I knew that, something about the story simply didn’t ring true.
Eric:
Tell me more about the authenticity scoring model you’ve developed.
Don:
That experience eventually led me to create an authenticity scoring model.
I can take a transcript of a conversation and run it through the model.
The model assigns a score from zero to one hundred.
It’s looking for the same kinds of things I naturally notice when listening to someone speak.
I decided to quantify those observations and turn them into measurable data points.
The highest score I’ve seen so far was a 94.
The lowest was a 12.
It works very well.
Eric:
Tell me more about that.
Don:
For example, the transcripts of your interviews are available on your website.
I can take one of those transcripts and run it through the model.
It measures what is present and what is absent across multiple categories and data points.
It’s looking for the common and consistent elements that repeatedly appear in authentic near-death experiences.
If those elements are present, the score tends to be higher.
If key elements are missing, the score tends to be lower.
There are also experiences that I’m less interested in.
For example, people may overdose on drugs and report visions or unusual perceptions, but there was no actual physical death involved.
One of the things I’ve learned is that you can drug a brain, but you can’t drug a soul.
If someone genuinely crosses over, the effects of the drugs are gone and the experience is described very differently.
Eric:
As you know, I’ve asked many people that question.
How do you know it wasn’t simply a drug trip?
What’s the answer?
Don:
The answer is what I just mentioned.
You can drug a brain, but you cannot drug a soul.
When people cross over, the pain is gone.
The soul has no nerve endings.
People consistently describe their hearing becoming clearer, their vision becoming sharper, and their thinking becoming crystal clear.
Someone may have taken enough drugs to overdose, and that happens all the time.
But according to these reports, once they cross over, the effects of those drugs disappear completely.
Eric:
While we’re talking about your model, let me mention something I see on YouTube.
Every once in a while, someone leaves a comment saying, “I believed the story until they said this one thing, and then I stopped believing them.”
Maybe they wrote a book.
Maybe they said something that didn’t fit the listener’s expectations.
What advice would you give to people who react that way?
Don:
Listen to more than one story.
Listen to a thousand stories.
Listen to ten thousand stories.
Listen to everything you can get your hands on.
When you look at the data in bulk—not one story, not ten stories, not a hundred stories, but thousands, millions, or potentially billions of accounts throughout human history—you begin to see patterns emerge.
When you’re looking at that volume of information, individual details that don’t match your preconceived notions become much less important than the overwhelming consistency of the larger body of evidence.
Don:
But these people—many of them already believe in NDEs. They just don’t believe that particular person.
Eric:
Well, that’s fine. How do people know whether that particular person is telling the truth?
Don:
Again, that’s a personal choice.
One of the things I look for is outside motivation.
Let me tell you about my friend Frank.
Frank is a good friend of mine who lives in Arizona. We served together in the military. He’s an evangelical Christian, and now that he’s retired, he spends his time volunteering at soup kitchens and helping people overcome challenges in their lives.
When I first started researching NDEs, I told him what I was doing.
He said, “Oh yeah, people send me those all the time. I don’t believe any of that stuff.”
I asked him what he meant.
What I discovered was that there’s an entire subset of people who are trying to push an agenda or support a particular bias. They’ll take a short clip from an NDE interview, isolate it from the larger conversation, and then launch into their own commentary to support whatever conclusion they already wanted to reach.
I hadn’t really encountered that before, but I realized it’s a significant part of the NDE landscape.
Eric:
Let me say, on a personal note, that the vast majority of people I’ve had on this show, I believe.
Do I believe every single word they say? Maybe not.
But I believe most of what they say.
It’s hard to know whether every detail is accurate.
For those people who think that writing a book somehow destroys a person’s credibility, I would push back on that.
Many people whose NDEs I consider completely genuine have written books because they needed a way to process and share what happened to them.
For many of them, it’s therapeutic.
And the reality is that most people who write these books never make any significant money from them.
Only a very small percentage do.
So please don’t use that against people.
I’m not talking to you, Don. I’m talking to listeners in general.
Don:
Right. Absolutely.
Eric:
You mentioned the word “soul” a minute ago.
Tell me what you believe that word means.
Don:
Speaking of books, there’s an entire chapter in my book devoted to that specific topic.
You really can’t talk about NDEs without talking about a soul, a spirit, or a consciousness that continues after death.
That’s ultimately what we’re discussing.
To answer your question directly, I believe the soul is the part of your consciousness that continues after the physical body can no longer sustain life, either temporarily or permanently.
That’s where the out-of-body experience begins, and then everything else follows from there.
Eric:
By the way, I don’t mind you mentioning your book. It doesn’t hurt your credibility with me.
Wasn’t it called God’s First Language?
Don:
Actually, I changed the title.
Eric:
Oh no! What’s it called now?
Don:
I’m doing some A/B testing.
The ebook is already out, and I recently released the paperback.
The new title is:
You’re Going to Die Someday, Right?
The subtitle is:
Near-Death Experiences Reveal What Happens Next.
I was trying to make it a little more direct and maybe a little more commercial.
The basic idea is simple.
The one thing every human being has in common—and in fact every living thing on Earth has in common—is that if you’re alive, eventually that life ends.
We all have an expiration date.
We just don’t know when it is.
And everyone wants to know what happens after death.
Don:
When I first wrote the book under the title God’s First Language, there was one concept that I couldn’t find anyone talking about.
The idea is this:
Human beings have existed for roughly 300,000 years.
During that time, some percentage of people have always had near-death experiences.
If NDEs are happening now, then they were happening then.
Today they happen in larger numbers because of modern medicine, but they would still have occurred throughout human history.
My belief is that this is where the original concepts of:
- the afterlife
- the soul
- God
- heaven
- reincarnation
- the life review
all originated.
If you mentally hold the globe in your hands and imagine these stories raining down on humanity for 300,000 years, it starts to make sense.
Writing was only invented about 5,000 years ago.
That means there were roughly 295,000 years of oral tradition before anyone wrote anything down.
People sat around campfires telling stories.
And an NDE story would have been the most remarkable story anyone could tell.
If something like that happened in a clan of twenty or thirty hunter-gatherers, that story would be retold for generations.
Then, seemingly out of nowhere, around 120,000 years ago, we begin seeing ritual burials.
Compare that to groups like the Denisovans, who existed for hundreds of thousands of years without burying their dead.
That’s the central idea.
Ancient near-death experiences gave rise to humanity’s earliest concepts of the afterlife, the soul, God, and everything that followed.
Eric:
Where does religion fit into that?
Don:
Very good question.
Are you familiar with Jainism?
J-A-I-N-I-S-M.
It’s found primarily in parts of India and serves as one of the foundational cosmologies behind both Hinduism and Buddhism.
If you look at what Jains believe and how they describe reality, it’s remarkably similar to what people report in near-death experiences.
There are only about a million practitioners, but when I studied it, my reaction was:
“This is almost a photocopy of NDEs.”
It’s as if someone listened to thousands of NDE accounts and said:
“Let’s build a religion around this.”
That’s Jainism.
The problem comes when you try to turn spiritual insights into a formal religion.
At that point, you need a structure. You need growth. You need institutions.
My own conclusion is that if NDEs are accurate, then most religions get some things right and some things wrong.
I often joke that they all earn about a C-minus.
And I want to make something clear.
I have no interest whatsoever in trying to make anybody believe anything.
If someone is religious, that’s perfectly fine.
What I’ve come to believe is that the same thing happens to us after death regardless of what we believed before we died.
Don:
There are countless examples of people who were committed atheists.
People who believed that death was the end.
You die, you’re buried, and that’s it.
Then they have a near-death experience and come back saying:
“Before this happened, I was an atheist. Now I think differently.”
The same thing happens with religious people.
Someone may be deeply committed to a particular faith and then be surprised to discover things during their NDE that they never expected.
For example, many people report experiences involving reincarnation despite previously rejecting the idea entirely.
I see that kind of transformation all the time.
People have certain assumptions before the experience.
Afterward, many of those assumptions change.
Eric:
What about people who report hellish experiences?
Don:
That’s an interesting question.
One example involved a woman who struggled with drug addiction.
She had young children and eventually decided she was done with life.
She intentionally overdosed.
During her near-death experience, she entered the life review phase.
As often happens, she received the entire experience all at once, but she was also able to revisit individual interactions and experience them from both perspectives.
She relived many of the harmful things she had done to other people.
As she described it, she repeatedly said:
“I was in hell.”
“It was hell.”
“I was going through hell.”
She used that phrase over and over again.
But every reference was tied to the life review itself.
She wasn’t describing eternal punishment.
She was describing the emotional impact of confronting the consequences of her actions.
I’ve seen similar cases many times.
People who caused harm were forced to face what they had done.
But it occurred in a learning environment.
The message wasn’t:
“You are here to be judged.”
Or:
“You are here to be punished.”
The message was:
“You are here to learn.”
That’s one of the conclusions I’ve come to.
Earth is something like a school.
We’re here to learn.
Maybe you get your NDE PhD, graduate, and become a spirit guide.
At least that’s one way of looking at it.
Don:
So that’s my take on hellish experiences.
I’ve come to the conclusion that hell does not exist.
I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a concept created by humans and incorporated into religion.
Eric:
Let’s say I’m someone who doesn’t know what to believe.
I don’t know whether there’s an afterlife.
I don’t know whether I should care.
I don’t know what any of this has to do with my life right now.
What are the big takeaways?
Don:
A good example is my father.
He’s never been a religious person.
His approach to life has always been simple:
Do the right thing.
You know the difference between right and wrong.
Do the right thing every time.
Even if nobody is watching.
Even if there’s no chance you’ll ever get caught.
Just do the right thing.
Treat people the way you want to be treated.
Be kind.
Be generous.
Be respectful.
Be courteous.
That’s how he’s lived his life.
As a result, his life review is going to be a walk in the park.
If you don’t have things weighing heavily on your conscience, then you really don’t have anything to worry about.
If you’re uncertain about what happens after death, that’s fine too.
And again, I come back to what I call the Trump card.
It doesn’t matter what you believe while you’re here because eventually you’re going to find out.
The same thing happens to everybody.
It doesn’t matter what culture you come from.
It doesn’t matter what language you speak.
It doesn’t matter what religion you practice.
The reports are universal.
Eric:
I want your opinion on something.
I’ve interviewed a lot of people and spent years thinking about this subject.
One of the conclusions I’ve reached is that when people have a near-death experience, they’re only seeing a tiny glimpse of what the afterlife is actually like.
You’re nodding your head, so I assume you agree.
Don:
Absolutely.
Eric:
If they’re only seeing a tiny glimpse, then there must be a great deal more that they’re not seeing or experiencing.
Can that throw us off a little bit?
Don:
Absolutely.
You’re exactly right.
Think of it like walking into Disney World but never getting past the turnstile.
There’s a boundary issue.
Many people describe crossing over, going through the tunnel, encountering the light, meeting deceased relatives, having a life review, and going through the entire process.
Then they reach a boundary.
At that point they’re essentially told:
“You need to stop here. If you go any farther, you won’t be able to come back.”
Their body is still viable.
They still have things left to accomplish.
They still have a life to live.
So they’re encouraged to return.
That boundary appears frequently in NDE accounts.
Not in every case, but often enough that it’s clearly a recurring element.
And there’s another important point.
If someone reaches that boundary and keeps going, you’re never going to interview them because they didn’t come back.
Eric:
I often wonder about the people who say they were given a choice.
The majority seem to have some form of choice.
A few are simply told they’re going back.
But most seem to retain some agency.
They may be persuaded, but they still have a choice.
I believe that freedom of choice is a huge part of what the next life is about.
I also wonder how many people, when given the choice, said:
“No, I’m staying.”
We never hear from them.
Was it 90 percent?
50 percent?
We have no idea.
Don:
I’ve thought about that as well.
Consider someone who experiences a catastrophic death where the body is destroyed beyond any possibility of recovery.
For that person, returning isn’t an option.
The choice is removed.
There’s a chapter in my book about free will because I believe free will is one of the few things that crosses over from here to there.
One thing I see repeatedly is that people begin an interview by saying:
“I was told I had to come back.”
It sounds as if they were ordered to return.
But if you continue listening, the story often evolves.
They’ll say:
“I wanted to stay.”
“It was beautiful there.”
“There was no pain.”
“All my worries were gone.”
Then the conversation shifts.
They’re shown their life plan.
They’re reminded of their family.
They’re reminded of things they still wanted to accomplish.
And eventually they describe making the decision themselves.
That happens very frequently.
I’ve also seen very brief NDEs where none of that occurs.
For example, one man flatlined during surgery.
He had an out-of-body experience and immediately found himself looking down at the operating room.
A spirit guide appeared next to him.
The entire experience lasted only moments.
He barely had time to process what was happening before he was back in his body.
There was no choice involved.
It was simply:
“Nope. You’re going back.”
So there are exceptions.
But the free-will element is incredibly common.
Many people start by saying they were forced to return, but when you examine the details, they often reveal that they ultimately chose to come back.
And to your point, if someone says:
“Nope. I’m staying.”
Then free will exists there too.
That person simply doesn’t return.
Eric:
I believe free will is one of the eternal laws of the universe.
For those who believe in God, I think it’s something God lives by as well.
Don:
I think it’s just one of the rules written on the back of the Monopoly box.
It’s always there.
It’s always on.
Even in this life, you always have choices.
Sometimes they’re bad choices.
Sometimes you’re choosing between two difficult options.
But there’s always a choice.
You always decide which path to take.
That’s why I think free will is like gravity.
It’s always operating.
Eric:
Just a couple more questions.
What message of hope can people take away from all of this?
Don:
I think there’s a kind of spiritual awakening that comes from studying NDEs.
Speaking personally, the more I’ve learned about them, the more they’ve changed the way I live my day-to-day life.
When I go to the bank, stop at an ATM, grab a hot dog, go bowling, or just move through ordinary life, I make a conscious effort to put a smile on someone’s face every day.
Just be nice.
There’s also another important aspect to this.
If you spend time in Facebook groups, Reddit communities, and other NDE forums, you’ll find a lot of people searching for answers because they’ve lost someone they love.
They’re dealing with grief.
That’s a major part of this subject.
There’s a chapter in my book called:
“Grandma Really Is in a Better Place.”
That’s something people tell children.
Well, it turns out there may be a lot of truth in it.
The point of all this is to learn.
To grow.
To become a better person.
That’s why we’re here.
Eric:
You’ve listened to the show, so you know I often ask people how much fear of death they have after their experience.
The answer is usually zero.
You haven’t personally had an NDE, but you’ve spent a tremendous amount of time studying them.
Given your conclusion that these experiences are real, how much fear of death do you still have?
Don:
None.
None whatsoever.
Not even a little bit.
I’m not concerned about it at all.
Why should I be?
You’re talking to someone who’s had four heart attacks, open-heart surgery, six cardiac catheterizations, and five stents.
I had my first heart attack at thirty-eight years old.
I don’t know what the expiration date on the back of my neck says because I can’t see it.
I don’t know when my time is coming.
But I’m not worried about it.
Death is inevitable.
Everybody dies eventually.
You might as well enjoy the ride while you’re here.
Don’t spend your life worrying about it.
Just do the best you can for the people around you while you’re on this planet.
That’s my view.
Eric:
Well said, my friend.
Don Winner, thanks so much for being with me today. This has been fun.
Don:
Thank you for having me.
Anytime.
I really enjoyed it.
I appreciate it.
Eric:
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
Don’t forget to follow or subscribe and sign up for our newsletter at RoundTripDeath.com.
If you’d like to share your near-death experience, or if you have questions or comments about the show, send an email to Eric@RoundTripDeath.com.
Until then, I wish you everything good that you’re looking for in this life and the next.